Originally Posted by Tobi Madera

yea im not buying this game. looks too much like a wow offbreed and not the GW game ive come to really love. I may eventually buy it out of boredom/to talk with my old GW friends that are comming to GW2. But given conditions that im not bored to tears.. no i wont buy this game

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Except most of it's not like that....

Originally Posted by Scraggly Puff

after watching what they've done with gw1 im def not buying gw2.

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Honestly, I'm still pretty undecided. GW2 looks almost identical to WoW to me right now.

Originally Posted by Errant Venture

They've grabbed all of the bad things about WoW and none of the good things about Guild Wars. I'm going to have a great time playing TOR

Originally Posted by own age myname

WoW offbreed? I'm glad you've read the articles/info...

Originally Posted by Skyy High

HAAHAHAHAHAHA!

Enjoy your dedicated Jedi healer.

Originally Posted by Espadon

Hi I am visiting these forums because I used to do art commissions here and incidentally saw this thread.

I've lost all faith in Anet because they're shortsighted, superficial, and over-idealistic.
Standards differ and maybe my standard is uncharacteristically high, but gilwars has about as much replayability as Diablo 2 LoD for me. A game isn't about texture detail, and it's not about saving the world. I enjoy games that are enjoyable and memorable.
Anet has detailed meshes and detailed textures, but they don't really come together to create much of an atmosphere. I'm not sure how many of you are sensitive to atmosphere but some games have a much better sense of atmosphere than gilwars and they do it well with much simpler assets. Kotai's concept art has great atmosphere but Anet's implementation is myopic at best. Yes, it does follow the details of the concept art to the letter, but they always miss the biggest detail, which is the actual feel of the concept.

That's really what I think Anet lacks. It's a game company that only does things by numbers. In doing so their game lacks a soul, a central driving spirit. Why do Blizzard games and Valve games do so well? It's not just the story, the gameplay or the graphics. Those elements all combine to create a certain spirit to them. WoW, with its simplistic meshes and impressionistic colors, has that certain spirit. You can love it or hate it, but the fact it's there makes the difference between a good game and a bad game.

I think GW2 will lack a soul just like GW1. Anet doesn't have it in them. I think some people are perfectly fine with that, but as for me, I don't want to pay for their work; it's not worth any more of my time.

Originally Posted by Espadon

Hi I am visiting these forums because I used to do art commissions here and incidentally saw this thread.

I've lost all faith in Anet because they're shortsighted, superficial, and over-idealistic.
Standards differ and maybe my standard is uncharacteristically high, but gilwars has about as much replayability as Diablo 2 LoD for me. A game isn't about texture detail, and it's not about saving the world. I enjoy games that are enjoyable and memorable.
Anet has detailed meshes and detailed textures, but they don't really come together to create much of an atmosphere. I'm not sure how many of you are sensitive to atmosphere but some games have a much better sense of atmosphere than gilwars and they do it well with much simpler assets. Kotai's concept art has great atmosphere but Anet's implementation is myopic at best. Yes, it does follow the details of the concept art to the letter, but they always miss the biggest detail, which is the actual feel of the concept.

That's really what I think Anet lacks. It's a game company that only does things by numbers. In doing so their game lacks a soul, a central driving spirit. Why do Blizzard games and Valve games do so well? It's not just the story, the gameplay or the graphics. Those elements all combine to create a certain spirit to them. WoW, with its simplistic meshes and impressionistic colors, has that certain spirit. You can love it or hate it, but the fact it's there makes the difference between a good game and a bad game.
I think GW2 will lack a soul just like GW1. Anet doesn't have it in them. I think some people are perfectly fine with that, but as for me, I don't want to pay for their work; it's not worth any more of my time.

Finally, after playing several F2P games, I've concluded the community in general is worse than P2P games. I think a large part can be attributed to the fact F2P games appeal to people with lesser means, and the reason they have lesser means is because they fail at life. It's unavoidable that they bring their fail into the game. Sorry if it's an unpleasant and rude thing to say, but it can't be denied a certain portion of gamers do play as a way to escape from problematic real-life pressures. Games with fewer obligations [especially financial obligations] and persistent achievement systems, such as F2P MMOs, especially appeal to that demographic.

Originally Posted by own age myname

WoW offbreed? I'm glad you've read the articles/info...

Originally Posted by Errant Venture

You do realize that energy management, secondary professions, diverse skill choices, dedicated healers, prots, and skill-based mechanics like bull's strike and body blocks are all the things about Guild Wars PvP that made it unique and enjoyable right? And they're all the things that are being removed. You've obviosuly not played high-end PvP b/c a GvG system where teams are 5v5 with self-heals, no prots, and no objectives like flags is simply not enjoyable. I'm telling you right now that PvE in Guild Wars will be great. It'll be fun and enjoyable because it's a straight rip of WoW and WoW has absolutely brilliant PvE. The PvP will be shit though. and for that reason I'm going to be playing TOR. It's combat engine was built for PvP and it's going to have a twitch-based space combat system which will allow spectacular pvp in which the most-skilled player wins. I hope you have a great time in GW2 and I'm sure it will be a very enjoyable game for many people. But it's not what I want and I'm not going to play it ^___^.

Tl;dr People are acting like GW2 being a WoW-clone is a bad thing. Iirc WoW is the most popular PvE-focused MMO the market has ever seen. How can a game that seeks to emulate the kind of PvE gameplay WoW has be bad?

Originally Posted by Me

Show me conditional skills from GW1 that you would like to see typified in GW2. My argument is that there really aren't as many "smart conditionals" in GW1 as you think. And, no, I don't consider "while attacking" or "while casting" to be "smart"; the first is basically a given against any physical class, and the second is pretty much confined to twitch skills that they've decided don't belong in the game, or at least not as much. Here are the conditional skills (NOT including the position-dependent skills, which as I said open up another huge can of wurms, but as you said, we can't know how effective those are yet) that I've gathered from the big thread o' skills that Kahnei posted.

Unholy Feast: Damage and cripple enemies around you. Enemies take extra damage for each condition on them.
Feast of Corruption: Rip effects off an enemy to damage them.
Life Blast: Blast that deals more damage the more life force you have.
Crossfire: Shoot an arrow that does more damage if it strikes an enemy from behind or the sides.
Concussion Shot: Shoot an arrow to daze an enemy. To stun enemies, hit them from behind.
Throw Axe: Throw an axe and make your enemy vulnerable. (I include this here specifically because there's a trait that we know about that adds the functionality "if this hits a fleeing foe, that foe is crippled).
Tactical Strike: Lunge behind your foe and attack. If you strike their back, it criticals. Anywhere else has a different effect (possibly stun).
Riposte: For several seconds, you block the next attack. If it was a melee attack, counter with a very powerful attack.

And, again, these are (mostly) the weapon skills, not likely to be terribly conditional considering you'll always have it on your bar, wherever you go.

Oh, also, throw the Signets on there as skills that reward player skill. "Take the passive benefit, or lose it for 30 seconds and get the active benefit," is a simple and elegant way to separate players who properly use the skill from those who don't.

Originally Posted by Tobi Madera

And im sorry you feel that by me saying GW2 looks like WoW that i auto-matically dont know s**t about what im talking about.

Originally Posted by Tobi Madera

actually thats how i figured it looked WoWish. It really looks like a WoW/Runescape looking game with GW graphics slapped on it. like i said i may buy it for use as an online chatroom. But i liked the way GW1 was/is. I dont feel like going and fighting in a world of other people where i cant go and do "my own" if i want to(unless the game dies off). Thats the big issue i have with it. Personal space should be a choice not a luxury. + watching video content from the game about the norn class... yea thats what kinda made me say "this is really gay im not buying this." So yea, im going to stick w/ GW1 and when it gets cut off ill go play something else. And anets lack of decent content updates in GW was pitiful(even in the begingin it was fine tunning not adding per se) and its gotten worse. I mean 4months to tweak some skill for a class that probably wont get anymore recognition? Thats weak. And im sorry you feel that by me saying GW2 looks like WoW that i auto-matically dont know s**t about what im talking about.

Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole

I aint buying a wow copy...few things are different but its still wow based

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Energy management: removing it does simplify the game, but they're adding in a ton of focus on positioning. Positioning was always important, but not nearly as much as it looks like it's going to be in GW2. Something has to give. I still think that if they take some of the community suggestions about energy management it'd make a world of difference in terms of strategy.

Secondary professions: Lulz, you're citing this as something that made GW1 PvP good? Secondary profession abuse was the single biggest contributing factor to gimmicks, period. Hexway, spiritway, Thumpers, scythe sins, scythe rangers, R/P, R/A, fast cast water mesmers, etc, etc, etc. And you're going to sit there and tell me how it's going to hurt PvP for it to be removed? F***, it's what people have been asking for in GW1 for years, to nerf everything so secondary abuse is impossible.

Diverse skill choices: First off, meta was king; I'd be willing to wager that three quarters of the skills were never used in a high end PvP match in any given meta, and of the rest only a portion were used regularly at any one time. Second, traits. They open up a huge amount of diversity, just by being able to tweak your skills alone. Third, the ability to mix and match weapon sets to bring different sets of skills to the table is another huge area that you can expand, an area that simply did not exist in GW1.

Dedicated healers: Clearly can't be all that integral to balanced PvP, since every other game has it and it doesn't make them any more balanced. The game is balanced around monks, they are the single most important class in the game, and that is blatantly unhealthy. No class should be THAT vital. I challenge you to give me one good reason that a team should be such a house of cards that taking out a monk = GG wipe.

Prots: Are you kidding me? They've specifically said that we're getting prots. Hell, blind alone acts more like a prot now (only works on one attack, use it wisely, don't spam it on recharge). We have half of the classes revealed, and we don't even have a fraction of all of the skills. I'm taking their word, thanks; beats throwing my hands in the air and going "zomg they don't have any prot!!!"

Body blocks: I'm happy that rubber banding is dying, thanks. No more free snares either; you want to snare someone, bring a profession with snares. Shocking, I know.

Skill-based mechanics: yeah, I went over this in a GW2G thread already, so let me just copy-paste that...

Bull's Strike is always the example everyone brings up when they talk about "good conditionals". There's a reason for that: it's the most skill-intensive to land consistently. Of course, it's still not really all that skill-intensive, since there's no penalty for missing; you could just spam it on recharge and you'll get a free KD on top of some +damage eventually.

So...yeah, what were you saying about "shit PvP" again? Oh, right, you think the game with the devs who have actually claimed that traditional MMO design is the holy grail, and they're just trying to perfect it (with some VO work on top, of course!). And you expect this new game to be different from every other game that's been built that way...why, exactly? In other words: which takes more faith, to believe that the devs who have outright stated they want to fix everything that's wrong with the genre might end up making something better, or to believe that the devs who think everything is hunky-dory with the genre might stumble into some PvP that's magically better than anything we've seen in every other game before it?


Yeah, see, the thing is...you don't. The only negative thing you've come up with, the only real similarity between GW2 and WoW, is:

Eh, that's kinda the point of an MMO, to play with others. If you really think that moving to a persistent world is cause to say that it's "copying WoW" in the face of all of the other huge differences...yeah, I think I'm allowed to say you don't know s***.